Interview of Secretary Of State Colin L. Powell By Bob Schieffer And Gloria Borger Of CBS'S Face The Nation

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
For Immediate Release
February 12, 2001


February 11, 2001
Washington, D.C.


MS. BORGER: This is, as you know, the tenth anniversary of the Gulf
War. Do you believe Saddam Hussein is stronger or weaker than he was?

SECRETARY POWELL: He's weaker, he's much weaker. That million-man
army of ten years ago is gone. He is sitting on a very much smaller
army of perhaps 350,000 that does not have the capacity to invade its
neighbors any longer. He is living in three concentric rings of jails
that he has created for himself in order to protect himself behind a
security cordon. He has a great deal of money available to him through
our Oil-for-Food Program, which he refuses to use entirely for the
benefit of his people and for his children. Instead, he continues to
pursue weapons of mass destruction to threaten the people and children
of the region.

MS. BORGER: But the CIA director told Congress this week that Hussein
has "grown more confident" in his ability to hold onto his power.

SECRETARY POWELL: I'm sure he can hold on to his power, but if power
is essentially sitting in palaces in Baghdad while the rest of the
world leaves you behind, and you are wasting the treasure of your
people, I don't consider this confidence that is well deserved. I
think it would be better if he were less confident in a democratic
system where he was responsive to the will of the people.

What he can't do is invade his neighbors any more, but he can threaten
his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction, which is why we entered
into this agreement at the end of the Gulf War to contain his ability
to move in that direction. And in my trip I'm going to be telling
everybody in the region--I'm also going to be discussing with our
friends in the Security Council - the absolute necessity of making
sure that he is not allowed to simply walk away from this and pursue
weapons of mass destruction.

MR. SCHIEFFER: Well, let me just ask you about this, then, because
we're now seeing that Russia and France are showing signs they want to
ease the sanctions on Iraq. There are commercial flights arriving
there daily with uninspected cargo. There have been no arms
inspections since 1998. What could or should be done about that?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, but there are some positive signs here. We
have been able to keep weapons from going into Iraq. We have been able
to keep the sanctions in place to the extent that items that might
support weapons of mass destruction development have had some controls
on them. We have also had the Oil-for-Food Program that puts some
controls on the use of the money that is made available to him so that
that money is used for peaceful, safe purposes.

But at the same time, there is a lot of smuggling. There is leakage in
the regime of controls that are around him. But I think we can rally
again, pull that coalition back together. It hasn't broken up, it
hasn't fallen apart. A few planes going in from time to time does not
cause this to be a failure. In fact, it's been quite a success for ten
years, but there is leakage, there is slippage.

And I think it's my responsibility, for President Bush, to try to rally
again to make sure we keep the finger pointed where it deserves to be
pointed, on the Iraqi regime, and not the Iraqi people, and remind
everybody in the region he isn't threatening America; he is threatening
the nations of the region, every nation around him, and we all have an
obligation to make sure that he complies. And it should not be us
begging for him to let the inspectors in. At the end of the day, he's
going to have to let the inspectors in if he wishes ultimately to
recapture freedom of movement totally.

MR. SCHIEFFER: But how do you do that? I mean, you're saying that the
inspectors need to be going back in there. How do you do that?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, we have to wait and make sure that he
understands that he will continue to pay a rather significant price for
his intransigence, and he will not escape from the regime that has been
placed around him entirely until he satisfies the international
community that he is no longer doing what he says he isn't doing. And
if he isn't doing it, but he's lying, and we know he's lying, and so he
is doing it. And until he is willing to let people come in who can
verify that he isn't doing it, we can consider that he is still lying
to us.

MS. BORGER: Do you have a time frame for this?

SECRETARY POWELL: I am going to the region. I have already begun
speaking to members of the - the Permanent Members of the Security
Council. I've been talking to the many foreign leaders who I've met
with over the last three weeks, some 25 foreign leaders I've seen in
the last three weeks.

MS. BORGER: This is for the return of inspectors. Are you saying to
people we want to return inspectors by date X?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, I have no such date in mind, nor do I think we
should have such a date in mind. The sanctions and the other controls
that are on him stay in place until the inspectors do go in.

MR. SCHIEFFER: I understand that the Administration has already
funneled some money into opposition groups to Saddam Hussein. Mr.
Secretary, do you think that in the end that can be effective, that
those groups can be effective?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think that they are part of an overall strategy.
And keep in mind, the opposition, the Iraqi opposition groups that
we're supporting, are separate from the UN efforts. This is something
the United States is doing. And I think that they can be effective in
some of the public diplomacy actions they have undertaken, in
broadcasting or getting information to the Iraqi people about the
nature of their regime and what their leadership is costing them. I
think in terms of providing humanitarian relief. And we are always
looking to see what else the Iraqi opposition might do that makes sense
and supports our policies.